Dialogues of Plato - MobileReference [377]
That is not easy to determine, I said; but if you will bring your love tome, and will let me talk with him, I may perhaps be able to show you how toconverse with him, instead of singing and reciting in the fashion of whichyou are accused.
There will be no difficulty in bringing him, he replied; if you will onlygo with Ctesippus into the Palaestra, and sit down and talk, I believe thathe will come of his own accord; for he is fond of listening, Socrates. Andas this is the festival of the Hermaea, the young men and boys are alltogether, and there is no separation between them. He will be sure tocome: but if he does not, Ctesippus with whom he is familiar, and whoserelation Menexenus is his great friend, shall call him.
That will be the way, I said. Thereupon I led Ctesippus into thePalaestra, and the rest followed.
Upon entering we found that the boys had just been sacrificing; and thispart of the festival was nearly at an end. They were all in their whitearray, and games at dice were going on among them. Most of them were inthe outer court amusing themselves; but some were in a corner of theApodyterium playing at odd and even with a number of dice, which they tookout of little wicker baskets. There was also a circle of lookers-on; amongthem was Lysis. He was standing with the other boys and youths, having acrown upon his head, like a fair vision, and not less worthy of praise forhis goodness than for his beauty. We left them, and went over to theopposite side of the room, where, finding a quiet place, we sat down; andthen we began to talk. This attracted Lysis, who was constantly turninground to look at us--he was evidently wanting to come to us. For a time hehesitated and had not the courage to come alone; but first of all, hisfriend Menexenus, leaving his play, entered the Palaestra from the court,and when he saw Ctesippus and myself, was going to take a seat by us; andthen Lysis, seeing him, followed, and sat down by his side; and the otherboys joined. I should observe that Hippothales, when he saw the crowd, gotbehind them, where he thought that he would be out of sight of Lysis, lesthe should anger him; and there he stood and listened.
I turned to Menexenus, and said: Son of Demophon, which of you two youthsis the elder?
That is a matter of dispute between us, he said.
And which is the nobler? Is that also a matter of dispute?
Yes, certainly.
And another disputed point is, which is the fairer?
The two boys laughed.
I shall not ask which is the richer of the two, I said; for you arefriends, are you not?
Certainly, they replied.
And friends have all things in common, so that one of you can be no richerthan the other, if you say truly that you are friends.
They assented. I was about to ask which was the juster of the two, andwhich was the wiser of the two; but at this moment Menexenus was calledaway by some one who came and said that the gymnastic-master wanted him. Isupposed that he had to offer sacrifice. So he went away, and I askedLysis some more questions. I dare say, Lysis, I said, that your father andmother love you very much.
Certainly, he said.
And they would wish you to be perfectly happy.
Yes.
But do you think that any one is happy who is in the condition of a slave,and who cannot do what he likes?
I should think not indeed, he said.
And if your father and mother love you, and desire that you should behappy, no one can doubt that they are very ready to promote your happiness.
Certainly, he replied.
And do they then permit you to do what you like, and never rebuke you orhinder you from doing what you desire?
Yes, indeed, Socrates; there are a great many things which they hinder mefrom doing.
What do you mean? I said. Do they want you to be happy, and yet hinder youfrom doing what you like? for example, if you want to mount one of yourfather's chariots, and take the reins at a race, they will not allow you todo so--they will prevent you?
Certainly,