Gorgias [17]
punished is suffering or acting? Pol. Suffering, Socrates; there can be no doubt of that. Soc. And suffering implies an agent? Pol. Certainly, Socrates; and he is the punisher. Soc. And he who punishes rightly, punishes justly? Pol. Yes. Soc. And therefore he acts justly? Pol. Justly. Soc. Then he who is punished and suffers retribution, suffers justly? Pol. That is evident. Soc. And that which is just has been admitted to be honourable? Pol. Certainly. Soc. Then the punisher does what is honourable, and the punished suffers what is honourable? Pol. True. Soc. And if what is honourable, then what is good, for the honourable is either pleasant or useful? Pol. Certainly. Soc. Then he who is punished suffers what is good? Pol. That is true. Soc. Then he is benefited? Pol. Yes. Soc. Do I understand you to mean what I mean by the term "benefited"? I mean, that if he be justly punished his soul is improved. Pol. Surely. Soc. Then he who is punished is delivered from the evil of his soul? Pol. Yes. Soc. And is he not then delivered from the greatest evil? Look at the matter in this way:-In respect of a man's estate, do you see any greater evil than poverty? Pol. There is no greater evil. Soc. Again, in a man's bodily frame, you would say that the evil is weakness and disease and deformity? Pol. I should. Soc. And do you not imagine that the soul likewise has some evil of her own? Pol. Of course. Soc. And this you would call injustice and ignorance and cowardice, and the like? Pol. Certainly. Soc. So then, in mind, body, and estate, which are three, you have pointed out three corresponding evils-injustice, disease, poverty? Pol. True. Soc. And which of the evils is the most disgraceful?-Is not the most disgraceful of them injustice, and in general the evil of the soul? Pol. By far the most. Soc. And if the most disgraceful, then also the worst? Pol. What do you mean, Socrates? Soc. I mean to say, that is most disgraceful has been already admitted to be most painful or hurtful, or both. Pol. Certainly. Soc. And now injustice and all evil in the soul has been admitted by to be most disgraceful? Pol. It has been admitted. Soc. And most disgraceful either because most painful and causing excessive pain, or most hurtful, or both? Pol. Certainly. Soc. And therefore to be unjust and intemperate, and cowardly and ignorant, is more painful than to be poor and sick? Pol. Nay, Socrates; the painfulness does not appear to me to follow from your premises. Soc. Then, if, as you would argue, not more painful, the evil of the soul is of all evils the most disgraceful; and the excess of disgrace must be caused by some preternatural greatness, or extraordinary hurtfulness of the evil. Pol. Clearly. Soc. And that which exceeds most in hurtfulness will be the greatest of evils? Pol. Yes. Soc. Then injustice and intemperance, and in general the depravity of the soul, are the greatest of evils! Pol. That is evident. Soc. Now, what art is there which delivers us from poverty? Does not the art of making money? Pol. Yes. Soc. And what art frees us from disease? Does not the art of medicine? Pol. Very true. Soc. And what from vice and injustice? If you are not able to answer at once, ask yourself whither we go with the sick, and to whom we take them. Pol. To the physicians, Socrates. Soc. And to whom do we go with the unjust and intemperate? Pol. To the judges, you mean. Soc. -Who are to punish them? Pol. Yes. Soc. And do not those who rightly punish others, punish them in accordance with a certain rule of justice? Pol. Clearly. Soc. Then the art of money-making frees a man from poverty; medicine from disease; and justice from intemperance and injustice? Pol. That is evident. Soc. Which, then, is the best of these three? Pol. Will you enumerate them? Soc. Money-making, medicine, and justice. Pol. Justice, Socrates, far excels the two others. Soc. And justice, if the best, gives the greatest pleasure or advantage or both?