Ion [4]
you would never think this to be the case.
Soc. I should like very much to hear you, but not until you have
answered a question which I have to ask. On what part of Homer do
you speak well?- not surely about every part.
Ion. There is no part, Socrates, about which I do not speak well
of that I can assure you.
Soc. Surely not about things in Homer of which you have no
knowledge?
Ion. And what is there in Homer of which I have no knowledge?
Soc. Why, does not Homer speak in many passages about arts? For
example, about driving; if I can only remember the lines I will repeat
them.
Ion. I remember, and will repeat them.
Soc. Tell me then, what Nestor says to Antilochus, his son, where he
bids him be careful of the turn at the horse-race in honour of
Patroclus.
Ion. He says:
Bend gently in the polished chariot to the left of them, and urge
the horse on the right hand with whip and voice; and slacken the rein.
And when you are at the goal, let the left horse draw near, yet so
that the nave of the well-wrought wheel may not even seem to touch the
extremity; and avoid catching the stone.
Soc. Enough. Now, Ion, will the charioteer or the physician be the
better judge of the propriety of these lines?
Ion. The charioteer, clearly.
Soc. And will the reason be that this is his art, or will there be
any other reason?
Ion. No, that will be the reason.
Soc. And every art is appointed by God to have knowledge of a
certain work; for that which we know by the art of the pilot we do not
know by the art of medicine?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. Nor do we know by the art of the carpenter that which we know
by the art of medicine?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. And this is true of all the arts;- that which we know with
one art we do not know with the other? But let me ask a prior
question: You admit that there are differences of arts?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. You would argue, as I should, that when one art is of one
kind of knowledge and another of another, they are different?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Yes, surely; for if the subject of knowledge were the same,
there would be no meaning in saying that the arts were different,-
if they both gave the same knowledge. For example, I know that here
are five fingers, and you know the same. And if I were to ask
whether I and you became acquainted with this fact by the help of
the same art of arithmetic, you would acknowledge that we did?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Tell me, then, what I was intending to ask you- whether this
holds universally? Must the same art have the same subject of
knowledge, and different arts other subjects of knowledge?
Ion. That is my opinion, Socrates.
Soc. Then he who has no knowledge of a particular art will have no
right judgment of the sayings and doings of that art?
Ion. Very true.
Soc. Then which will be a better judge of the lines which you were
reciting from Homer, you or the charioteer?
Ion. The charioteer.
Soc. Why, yes, because you are a rhapsode and not a charioteer.
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And the art of the rhapsode is different from that of the
charioteer?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And if a different knowledge, then a knowledge of different
matters?
Ion. True.
Soc. You know the passage in which Hecamede, the concubine of
Nestor, is described as giving to the wounded Machaon a posset, as
he says,
Made with Pramnian wine; and she grated cheese of goat's milk with a
grater of bronze, and at his side placed an onion which gives a relish
to drink.
Now would you say that the art of the rhapsode or the art of
medicine was better able to judge of the propriety of these lines?
Ion. The art of medicine.
Soc. And when Homer says,
And she descended into the deep like a leaden plummet, which, set in
the horn of ox that ranges in the fields, rushes along carrying
death among the ravenous fishes,-
will the art of the fisherman or of the rhapsode be better able to
judge whether these
Soc. I should like very much to hear you, but not until you have
answered a question which I have to ask. On what part of Homer do
you speak well?- not surely about every part.
Ion. There is no part, Socrates, about which I do not speak well
of that I can assure you.
Soc. Surely not about things in Homer of which you have no
knowledge?
Ion. And what is there in Homer of which I have no knowledge?
Soc. Why, does not Homer speak in many passages about arts? For
example, about driving; if I can only remember the lines I will repeat
them.
Ion. I remember, and will repeat them.
Soc. Tell me then, what Nestor says to Antilochus, his son, where he
bids him be careful of the turn at the horse-race in honour of
Patroclus.
Ion. He says:
Bend gently in the polished chariot to the left of them, and urge
the horse on the right hand with whip and voice; and slacken the rein.
And when you are at the goal, let the left horse draw near, yet so
that the nave of the well-wrought wheel may not even seem to touch the
extremity; and avoid catching the stone.
Soc. Enough. Now, Ion, will the charioteer or the physician be the
better judge of the propriety of these lines?
Ion. The charioteer, clearly.
Soc. And will the reason be that this is his art, or will there be
any other reason?
Ion. No, that will be the reason.
Soc. And every art is appointed by God to have knowledge of a
certain work; for that which we know by the art of the pilot we do not
know by the art of medicine?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. Nor do we know by the art of the carpenter that which we know
by the art of medicine?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. And this is true of all the arts;- that which we know with
one art we do not know with the other? But let me ask a prior
question: You admit that there are differences of arts?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. You would argue, as I should, that when one art is of one
kind of knowledge and another of another, they are different?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Yes, surely; for if the subject of knowledge were the same,
there would be no meaning in saying that the arts were different,-
if they both gave the same knowledge. For example, I know that here
are five fingers, and you know the same. And if I were to ask
whether I and you became acquainted with this fact by the help of
the same art of arithmetic, you would acknowledge that we did?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Tell me, then, what I was intending to ask you- whether this
holds universally? Must the same art have the same subject of
knowledge, and different arts other subjects of knowledge?
Ion. That is my opinion, Socrates.
Soc. Then he who has no knowledge of a particular art will have no
right judgment of the sayings and doings of that art?
Ion. Very true.
Soc. Then which will be a better judge of the lines which you were
reciting from Homer, you or the charioteer?
Ion. The charioteer.
Soc. Why, yes, because you are a rhapsode and not a charioteer.
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And the art of the rhapsode is different from that of the
charioteer?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And if a different knowledge, then a knowledge of different
matters?
Ion. True.
Soc. You know the passage in which Hecamede, the concubine of
Nestor, is described as giving to the wounded Machaon a posset, as
he says,
Made with Pramnian wine; and she grated cheese of goat's milk with a
grater of bronze, and at his side placed an onion which gives a relish
to drink.
Now would you say that the art of the rhapsode or the art of
medicine was better able to judge of the propriety of these lines?
Ion. The art of medicine.
Soc. And when Homer says,
And she descended into the deep like a leaden plummet, which, set in
the horn of ox that ranges in the fields, rushes along carrying
death among the ravenous fishes,-
will the art of the fisherman or of the rhapsode be better able to
judge whether these