Jacqueline Kennedy - Caroline Kennedy [41]
Oh, you mean Cush—I thought you were talking about Spellman—
Oh, did I say Spellman?
Yes.
Oh, my goodness!
That's why I was surprised.
[laughs] Oh, no, I meant Cushing—I couldn't have said Spellman. Oh, no.
Well, of course he changed. Absolutely.
Yeah, and he said all the things—the right things—what a Catholic should be saying. And he did not like Cardinal Spellman.
No, that was my impression because I significantly recall hearing him on Cardinal Spellman. No, Cushing was very loyal. Cushing has a sort of exuberance of temperament, doesn't he?
Yeah, and he's very funny—I mean, he's sort of Last Hurrah-ish and the crusty way he speaks. So I'd say he was devoted to Cushing and Cushing to him.
But this came on along later, didn't it, because as you say at the beginning Cushing was not that way. Remember Monsignor Lally of the Boston Pilot? Was he ever—?
I don't remember him—or even his name.
And what about Spellman?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy—why didn't he like Spellman? Didn't he have Nixon to the Al Smith dinner? You know, he so obviously was against Jack. How could you like him? And his little mincing ways. You know, he really was trying to just slit Jack's throat all the time and wouldn't be a help. Wasn't the Puerto Rican bishops or something—39
Yes.
Put out a big—Cushing would make the right statement and answer to that, but Spellman never would. So many of the Catholics were so to the right—to the right of Goldwater. Spellman was one of them. And now he's left in the backwash—in the new wave of the Church.40 I'm so pleased!
Such a shame that the President and Pope John never met.
I know.
What happened at confessional?
Oh, well, when Jack would go to confession, there'd be long lines at Christmas and Easter, and he'd have a Secret Service man go stand in line for him. You'd have to stand about an hour, then he'd come over and just slip in the line, so nobody really knew who he was. The priest never knew. That was in Florida, at Christmas and Easter. It would be at a little church in West Palm Beach—not the church that we usually went to on Sundays. So he went to confession—you know, like anyone would.
It's amazing how it was done without—
Once he told me, as a joke, that sometimes priests would make you go to confession right before a communion breakfast, and he'd always say, "I forgot my noon prayers," and "I missed Mass on Wednesday," as his sins because—you wouldn't want some men in front of the whole room. But, I mean, he was so funny about it. But he really cared. He always did that. Again, was it superstition, or training, or what? I mean, lots of times I wouldn't go.
It always seemed to me that Bobby was more religious than the President.
Oh yes. Much. I mean, you know, go to things like First Friday, or Ethel would.41
I think we stopped last time at Hyannis Port on the day of the election. You stayed there for a couple of days, as I recall. I know Marian and I came down for luncheon on the Friday after the election.
Oh, yeah. I didn't realize that was after the election.
And then, I think, on that afternoon you went to Palm Beach.
I guess Jack went to Palm Beach and I went back to Washington because I was going to have John any minute.
That's right.
So he must have gone to Florida for a couple of days for a rest, then he'd come back to Washington. Yes, and then when he came back Thanksgiving—he was back and forth all the time—and then Thanksgiving he came back. We drove all down to the country that day around Middleburg1 to look for a house to rent and then he went back that evening and I had John late that night.
What was the date of John?
It was November 25—it was Thanksgiving Day. So then he came back that night—just turned around his plane—and then he stayed at our house in Georgetown all the time, sort of forming his cabinet and everything