Jacqueline Kennedy - Caroline Kennedy [45]
So Jack felt terribly about Franklin. He offered him ambassador to Canada, ambassador to Italy, every time anything—this was in the months after the presidency and before, anytime he could think of anything, because he knew he really owed so much to Franklin, and Franklin said, no, he just would use these years to make some money and keep his Fiat—and then one—I guess it was last winter—we were at the Roosevelts for dinner and I guess this undersecretary of commerce job had come up because after dinner Franklin and Jack disappeared into an upstairs bedroom about an hour and a half, and Franklin had been, I guess, telling Jack how much he wanted it. So, on the way home in the car, Jack was so happy to see—you know, at last there was something Franklin wanted. And then he was made it.
How about Udall?17 Had you known him at all?
Not really. You know, just the way I knew all the senators. I think he was always the one Jack wanted for that, don't you?
Yes.
Jack owed him a lot for Arizona, which he took away from Lyndon and brought to Jack. And he was bright and he really was—I mean, Jack said he's one of the best secretaries of the interior. You know, he really cares about conservation and all that. So I knew he was always planned and—who was it for Agriculture? There were three people—Herschel, does that make sense?
Herschel Newson?
Herschel or somebody, and Docking, was it?
Docking was the governor of Kansas.
Yeah, we knew him, we'd stayed with them. And some Her—well, Herschel Loveless, is it?
Herschel Loveless, yes, the former governor of Iowa.
Yeah. But Jack didn't like him much, I don't think? Anyway, he made things rather difficult. When Jack interviewed him, I guess he just had no ideas or was just—I know Jack was really depressed after that. And he loved Orville Freeman.18 I don't know if he was always wanting Orville Freeman or how Orville Freeman came up.
Orville gave the nominating speech in Los Angeles.
Yeah, but I mean, I wonder why Jack just didn't make him that in the beginning.
Orville didn't want it. Orville wanted to be attorney general.
I see.
Or to be secretary of the army, for some reason, and he just had a sense that the agricultural problem was insoluble and I think that was—my recollection is that, that was the last cabinet office filled.
I know at the convention, Jack was promising everyone Agriculture, wasn't he? I mean, a couple of people like Loveless and—
I think yes—particularly Middle Westerners.
Yeah.
To sort of flourish before them. Hodges?
Well, I don't remember any problem or anyone else they were considering besides Hodges.19 Who found Hodges? I think it was Sargent. And I don't know, it didn't set your mind aflame. I think maybe Jack thought he needed someone older.
Nice old man, a southerner—
A southerner business would trust, or something. I can't remember any comments he ever made and what kind of secretary of commerce Hodges was.
And then Ed Day as postmaster general.20
Oh, yeah. I don't know why he was chosen either, do you?
They wanted a Californian.
Oh, yeah. Well, he was the one cabinet member I really thought was third rate. I mean, I don't know about being postmaster general, but just corny and just—I don't know. I never thought much of him.
Now all the members of the cabinet, really the only ones whom the President knew moderately before, besides Bobby, were Douglas, and I guess, and Stewart Udall.
And Freeman.
And Freeman. But Rusk and McNamara and Hodges and Day, of course, Arthur Goldberg, we forgot.
Oh, yeah.
Goldberg was an old friend.
Yes, and he knew Goldberg—I mean, there was never any doubt in his mind that he wanted Arthur for that job. And I remember how sad he was when the appointment came in the Supreme Court, though he thought Wirtz was wonderful—a wonderful man. You know, it was sort of the way McNamara and Gilpatric21 worked together in Defense. You know, he really hated to lose Arthur in Labor but he really cared about