The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha - Bhikkhu Nanamoli [353]
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“And would the two tamable elephants or tamable horses or tamable oxen that were untamed and undisciplined, being untamed, acquire the behaviour of the tamed, would they arrive at the grade of the tamed, like the two elephants or horses or oxen that were well tamed and well disciplined?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“So too, great king, it is not possible that what can be achieved by one who has faith, who is free from illness, who is honest and sincere, who is energetic, and who is wise, can be achieved by one who has no faith, who has much illness, who is fraudulent and deceitful, who is lazy, and who is not wise.”
12. “What the Blessed One has said appears reasonable, what the Blessed One has said appears to be supported by reason.
“There are these four castes, venerable sir: the nobles, the brahmins, the merchants, and the workers. Now if they possessed these five factors of striving, and if their striving was right, would there be any difference among them in that respect?”
“Here, great king, in this respect I say that among them there is no difference, that is, between the deliverance of one and the deliverance of the others. Suppose a man took dry sāka wood, lit a fire, and produced heat; and then another man took dry sāla wood, lit a fire, and produced heat; [130] and then another man took dry mango wood, lit a fire, and produced heat; and then another man took dry fig wood, lit a fire, and produced heat. What do you think, great king? Would there be any difference among these fires lit with different kinds of wood, that is, between the flame of one and the flames of the others, or between the colour of one and the colours of the others, or between the radiance of one and the radiances of the others?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“So too, great king, when [spiritual] fire is kindled by energy, lit by striving, there is, I say, no difference, that is, between the deliverance of one and the deliverance of the others.”
13. “What the Blessed One has said appears reasonable, what the Blessed One has said appears to be supported by reason. But, venerable sir, how is it: are there gods?”
“Why do you ask that, great king?”
“Venerable sir, I was asking whether those gods come back to this [human] state or whether they do not.”
“Great king, those gods who are still subject to ill will come back to this [human] state, those gods who are no longer subject to ill will do not come back to this [human] state.”849
14. When this was said, General Viḍūḍabha asked the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, can those gods who are still subject to ill will and who come back to this [human] state topple or banish from that place those gods who are no longer subject to ill will and who do not come back to this [human] state?”
Then the venerable Ānanda thought: “This General Viḍūḍabha is the son of King Pasenadi of Kosala, and I am the son of the Blessed One. This is the time for one son to talk with the other.” He said to General Viḍūḍabha: “General, I shall ask you a question in return. Answer it as you choose. General, what do you think? There is the whole extent of King Pasenadi of Kosala’s realm, where [131] he exercises lordship and sovereignty; now can King Pasenadi of Kosala topple or banish from that place any recluse or brahmin, irrespective of whether that recluse or brahmin has merit or not and whether he leads the holy life or not?”
“He can do so, sir.”
“What do you think, general? There is the whole extent that is not King Pasenadi of Kosala’s realm, where he does not exercise lordship and