The Rolling Stone interviews - Jann Wenner [176]
Sadly, use of ritual can feed that neglect. Knowledge of philosophy can also feed that. It’s a great tragedy. If Buddha came here, if Nagarjuna [a great Indian Buddhist philosopher, circa the second century C.E.] came here, I think they would feel very critical about this; they would give us a big scolding. Nagarjuna would say that all our complex philosophies are not meant just for academics, our elegant rituals are not just for theatrics.
What about those who think Buddhism is simply an unfair rejection of the world? Even today, the pope thinks Buddhism is too depressing and negative.
Most importantly, those people who consider themselves Buddhists must practice the Buddha’s dharma sincerely—that will be the proof of the value of Buddhism. Some Tibetans today also say that in the past, the way of life was that the dharma almost served as a livelihood or a routine profession. The Buddhist was not thinking of nirvana, not caring for liberation, just how to make a living. Officials used it for their lives, monks, nuns and lamas for their lives. Inside, in their inner world, they were like ordinary people, lusting and hating. So the dharma became a poison in this way.
When there is too much focus on the Buddhist institution, and the country goes to waste, that’s what it means when people say Buddhism ruined the country. According to that reality, these accusations become true.
Therefore, the best answer for this criticism is for ourselves to practice sincerely. We can aim for nirvana and Buddhahood. But in the meantime, we can be practical, develop the education field and improve the worldly life in various ways to benefit society and humanity. In this way, we can be fully engaged.
Are there particular dharma teachings that are especially useful for people at different ages—for example, for younger people filled with turbulent emotions or for older people worrying about death?
I don’t think so. Buddha dharma is dealing with emotions. Young and old, the emotional world is the same. Some feelings closely associated with the physical body may differ in emphasis.
Then would you say that young persons benefit from meditating about death as much as older persons do?
Yes, in general. However, just to think about death alone, I don’t know how useful it is. For a materialist who doesn’t believe in future life, meditating on death might develop a bit more contentment, but it won’t bring great benefit. In Buddhism, meditation on death is important in the context of the matter-of-fact expectation of limitless lives and the sense of the possibility to transform our mind while evolving through those lives. The time of this life with liberty and opportunity becomes very important, actually the most precious time; wasting such a lifetime is a great tragedy. So we concentrate and meditate on death and impermanence until we powerfully feel that our precious lives with liberty and opportunity might get wasted if we don’t practice. In this case, since through ultimate wisdom you can attain ultimate freedom and even the exalted state of Buddhahood, you are energized by meditating on impermanence and death. Otherwise, just to do it in a materialist context might just make someone feel demoralized. That would be wrong, don’t you think?
What do you think about the relationship of religion and politics?
I think politics is a technique or method to serve the community and to lead society. And what is the meaning of “religion”? Broadly speaking, religion is the warm heart. All human activities are furthered by the warm heart—the compassionate heart. Every human activity can be positive and also can be a religious activity. As for politics, unfortunately, some people consider that, in politics, there is no morality, it’s just lies, bullying, cheating. That’s not genuine politics. It’s just savagery. Even religious teaching, when conducted with a motivation to deceive, exploit or dominate, is also quite immoral. On a general level in the West, religion means to believe in God the Creator, and with the motivation