Dialogues of Plato - MobileReference [386]
Certainly, they both said.
And I say, my boys, that no one who loves or desires another would everhave loved or desired or affected him, if he had not been in some waycongenial to him, either in his soul, or in his character, or in hismanners, or in his form.
Yes, yes, said Menexenus. But Lysis was silent.
Then, I said, the conclusion is, that what is of a congenial nature must beloved.
It follows, he said.
Then the lover, who is true and no counterfeit, must of necessity be lovedby his love.
Lysis and Menexenus gave a faint assent to this; and Hippothales changedinto all manner of colours with delight.
Here, intending to revise the argument, I said: Can we point out anydifference between the congenial and the like? For if that is possible,then I think, Lysis and Menexenus, there may be some sense in our argumentabout friendship. But if the congenial is only the like, how will you getrid of the other argument, of the uselessness of like to like in as far asthey are like; for to say that what is useless is dear, would be absurd? Suppose, then, that we agree to distinguish between the congenial and thelike--in the intoxication of argument, that may perhaps be allowed.
Very true.
And shall we further say that the good is congenial, and the eviluncongenial to every one? Or again that the evil is congenial to the evil,and the good to the good; and that which is neither good nor evil to thatwhich is neither good nor evil?
They agreed to the latter alternative.
Then, my boys, we have again fallen into the old discarded error; for theunjust will be the friend of the unjust, and the bad of the bad, as well asthe good of the good.
That appears to be the result.
But again, if we say that the congenial is the same as the good, in thatcase the good and he only will be the friend of the good.
True.
But that too was a position of ours which, as you will remember, has beenalready refuted by ourselves.
We remember.
Then what is to be done? Or rather is there anything to be done? I canonly, like the wise men who argue in courts, sum up the arguments:--Ifneither the beloved, nor the lover, nor the like, nor the unlike, nor thegood, nor the congenial, nor any other of whom we spoke--for there weresuch a number of them that I cannot remember all--if none of these arefriends, I know not what remains to be said.
Here I was going to invite the opinion of some older person, when suddenlywe were interrupted by the tutors of Lysis and Menexenus, who came upon uslike an evil apparition with their brothers, and bade them go home, as itwas getting late. At first, we and the by-standers drove them off; butafterwards, as they would not mind, and only went on shouting in theirbarbarous dialect, and got angry, and kept calling the boys--they appearedto us to have been drinking rather too much at the Hermaea, which made themdifficult to manage--we fairly gave way and broke up the company.
I said, however, a few words to the boys at parting: O Menexenus andLysis, how ridiculous that you two boys, and I, an old boy, who would fainbe one of you, should imagine ourselves to be friends--this is what the by-standers will go away and say--and as yet we have not been able to discoverwhat is a friend!
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The End
Menexenus
By Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett
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Plato Biography
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates and Menexenus.
SOCRATES: Whence come you, Menexenus? Are you from the Agora?
MENEXENUS: Yes, Socrates; I have been at the Council.
SOCRATES: And what might you be doing at the Council? And yet I need hardly ask, for I see that you, believing yourself to have arrived at the end of education and of philosophy, and to have had enough of them, are mounting upwards to things higher still, and, though rather young for the post, are intending to govern us elder men, like the rest of your family, which has always provided some one who kindly took care of us.
MENEXENUS: Yes, Socrates, I shall be ready to hold office, if you allow and advise that I should, but not if