THEAETETUS [18]
Whereas the other side do not admit that they speak falsely?
Theod. They do not.
Soc. And he, as may be inferred from his writings, agrees that
this opinion is also true.
Theod. Clearly.
Soc. Then all mankind, beginning with Protagoras, will contend, or
rather, I should say that he will allow, when he concedes that his
adversary has a true opinion-Protagoras, I say, will himself allow
that neither a dog nor any ordinary man is the measure of anything
which he has not learned-am I not right?
Theod. Yes.
Soc. And the truth of Protagoras being doubted by all, will be
true neither to himself to any one else?
Theod. I think, Socrates, that we are running my old friend too
hard.
Soc. But do not know that we are going beyond the truth.
Doubtless, as he is older, he may be expected to be wiser than we are.
And if he could only just get his head out of the world below, he
would have overthrown both of us again and again, me for talking
nonsense and you for assenting to me, and have been off and
underground in a trice. But as he is not within call, we must make the
best use of our own faculties, such as they are, and speak out what
appears to us to be true. And one thing which no one will deny is,
that there are great differences in the understandings of men.
Theod. In that opinion I quite agree.
Soc. And is there not most likely to be firm ground in the
distinction which we were indicating on behalf of Protagoras, viz.,
that most things, and all immediate sensations, such as hot, dry,
sweet, are only such as they appear; if however difference of
opinion is to be allowed at all, surely we must allow it in respect of
health or disease? for every woman, child, or living creature has
not such a knowledge of what conduces to health as to enable them to
cure themselves.
Theod. I quite agree.
Soc. Or again, in politics, while affirming that just and unjust,
honourable and disgraceful, holy and unholy, are in reality to each
state such as the state thinks and makes lawful, and that in
determining these matters no individual or state is wiser than
another, still the followers of Protagoras will not deny that in
determining what is or is not expedient for the community one state is
wiser and one counsellor better that another-they will scarcely
venture to maintain, that what a city enacts in the belief that it
is expedient will always be really expedient. But in the other case, I
mean when they speak of justice and injustice, piety and impiety, they
are confident that in nature these have no existence or essence of
their own-the truth is that which is agreed on at the time of the
agreement, and as long as the agreement lasts; and this is the
philosophy of many who do not altogether go along with Protagoras.
Here arises a new question, Theodorus, which threatens to be more
serious than the last.
Theod. Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.
Soc. That is true, and your remark recalls to my mind an observation
which I have often made, that those who have passed their days in
the pursuit of philosophy are ridiculously at fault when they have
to appear and speak in court. How natural is this!
Theod. What do you mean?
Soc. I mean to say, that those who have been trained in philosophy
and liberal pursuits are as unlike those who from their youth
upwards have been knocking about in the courts and such places, as a
freeman is in breeding unlike a slave.
Theod. In what is the difference seen?
Soc. In the leisure spoken of by you, which a freeman can always
command: he has his talk, out in peace, and, like ourselves, he
wanders at will from one subject to another, and from a second to a
third,-if the fancy takes him he begins again, as we are doing now,
caring not whether his words are many or few; his only aim is to
attain the truth. But the lawyer is always in a hurry; there is the
water of the clepsydra driving him on, and not allowing him to
expatiate at will: and there is
Theod. They do not.
Soc. And he, as may be inferred from his writings, agrees that
this opinion is also true.
Theod. Clearly.
Soc. Then all mankind, beginning with Protagoras, will contend, or
rather, I should say that he will allow, when he concedes that his
adversary has a true opinion-Protagoras, I say, will himself allow
that neither a dog nor any ordinary man is the measure of anything
which he has not learned-am I not right?
Theod. Yes.
Soc. And the truth of Protagoras being doubted by all, will be
true neither to himself to any one else?
Theod. I think, Socrates, that we are running my old friend too
hard.
Soc. But do not know that we are going beyond the truth.
Doubtless, as he is older, he may be expected to be wiser than we are.
And if he could only just get his head out of the world below, he
would have overthrown both of us again and again, me for talking
nonsense and you for assenting to me, and have been off and
underground in a trice. But as he is not within call, we must make the
best use of our own faculties, such as they are, and speak out what
appears to us to be true. And one thing which no one will deny is,
that there are great differences in the understandings of men.
Theod. In that opinion I quite agree.
Soc. And is there not most likely to be firm ground in the
distinction which we were indicating on behalf of Protagoras, viz.,
that most things, and all immediate sensations, such as hot, dry,
sweet, are only such as they appear; if however difference of
opinion is to be allowed at all, surely we must allow it in respect of
health or disease? for every woman, child, or living creature has
not such a knowledge of what conduces to health as to enable them to
cure themselves.
Theod. I quite agree.
Soc. Or again, in politics, while affirming that just and unjust,
honourable and disgraceful, holy and unholy, are in reality to each
state such as the state thinks and makes lawful, and that in
determining these matters no individual or state is wiser than
another, still the followers of Protagoras will not deny that in
determining what is or is not expedient for the community one state is
wiser and one counsellor better that another-they will scarcely
venture to maintain, that what a city enacts in the belief that it
is expedient will always be really expedient. But in the other case, I
mean when they speak of justice and injustice, piety and impiety, they
are confident that in nature these have no existence or essence of
their own-the truth is that which is agreed on at the time of the
agreement, and as long as the agreement lasts; and this is the
philosophy of many who do not altogether go along with Protagoras.
Here arises a new question, Theodorus, which threatens to be more
serious than the last.
Theod. Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.
Soc. That is true, and your remark recalls to my mind an observation
which I have often made, that those who have passed their days in
the pursuit of philosophy are ridiculously at fault when they have
to appear and speak in court. How natural is this!
Theod. What do you mean?
Soc. I mean to say, that those who have been trained in philosophy
and liberal pursuits are as unlike those who from their youth
upwards have been knocking about in the courts and such places, as a
freeman is in breeding unlike a slave.
Theod. In what is the difference seen?
Soc. In the leisure spoken of by you, which a freeman can always
command: he has his talk, out in peace, and, like ourselves, he
wanders at will from one subject to another, and from a second to a
third,-if the fancy takes him he begins again, as we are doing now,
caring not whether his words are many or few; his only aim is to
attain the truth. But the lawyer is always in a hurry; there is the
water of the clepsydra driving him on, and not allowing him to
expatiate at will: and there is