THEAETETUS [17]
that there was a better and worse, and that in
respect of this, some who as he said were the wise excelled others.
Theod. Very true.
Soc. Had Protagoras been living and answered for himself, instead of
our answering for him, there would have been no need of our
reviewing or reinforcing the argument. But as he is not here, and some
one may accuse us of speaking without authority on his behalf, had
we not better come to a clearer agreement about his meaning, for a
great deal may be at stake?
Theod. True.
Soc. Then let us obtain, not through any third person, but from
his own statement and in the fewest words possible, the basis of
agreement.
Theod. In what way?
Soc. In this way:-His words are, "What seems to a man, is to him."
Theod. Yes, so he says.
Soc. And are not we, Protagoras, uttering the opinion of man, or
rather of all mankind, when we say that every one thinks himself wiser
than other men in some things, and their inferior in others? In the
hour of danger, when they are in perils of war, or of the sea, or of
sickness, do they not look up to their commanders as if they were
gods, and expect salvation from them, only because they excel them
in knowledge? Is not the world full of men in their several
employments, who are looking for teachers and rulers of themselves and
of the animals? and there are plenty who think that they are able to
teach and able to rule. Now, in all this is implied that ignorance and
wisdom exist among them, least in their own opinion.
Theod. Certainly.
Soc. And wisdom is assumed by them to be true thought, and ignorance
to be false opinion.
Theod. Exactly.
Soc. How then, Protagoras, would you have us treat the argument?
Shall we say that the opinions of men are always true, or sometimes
true and sometimes false? In either case, the result is the same,
and their opinions are not always true, but sometimes true and
sometimes false. For tell me, Theodorus, do you suppose that you
yourself, or any other follower of Protagoras, would contend that no
one deems another ignorant or mistaken in his opinion?
Theod. The thing is incredible, Socrates.
Soc. And yet that absurdity is necessarily involved in the thesis
which declares man to be the measure of all things.
Theod. How so?
Soc. Why, suppose that you determine in your own mind something to
be true, and declare your opinion to me; let us assume, as he
argues, that this is true to you. Now, if so, you must either say that
the rest of us are not the judges of this opinion or judgment of
yours, or that we judge you always to have a true opinion: But are
there not thousands upon thousands who, whenever you form a
judgment, take up arms against you and are of an opposite judgment and
opinion, deeming that you judge falsely?
Theod. Yes, indeed, Socrates, thousands and tens of thousands, as
Homer says, who give me a world of trouble.
Soc. Well, but are we to assert that what you think is true to you
and false to the ten thousand others?
Theod. No other inference seems to be possible.
Soc. And how about Protagoras himself? If neither he nor the
multitude thought, as indeed they do not think, that man is the
measure of all things, must it not follow that the truth of which
Protagoras wrote would be true to no one? But if you suppose that he
himself thought this, and that the multitude does not agree with
him, you must begin by allowing that in whatever proportion the many
are more than one, in that proportion his truth is more untrue than
true.
Theod. That would follow if the truth is supposed to vary with
individual opinion.
Soc. And the best of the joke is, that he acknowledges the truth
of their opinion who believe his own opinion to be false; for he
admits that the opinions of all men are true.
Theod. Certainly.
Soc. And does he not allow that his own opinion is false, if he
admits that the opinion of those who think him false is true?
Theod. Of course.
Soc.
respect of this, some who as he said were the wise excelled others.
Theod. Very true.
Soc. Had Protagoras been living and answered for himself, instead of
our answering for him, there would have been no need of our
reviewing or reinforcing the argument. But as he is not here, and some
one may accuse us of speaking without authority on his behalf, had
we not better come to a clearer agreement about his meaning, for a
great deal may be at stake?
Theod. True.
Soc. Then let us obtain, not through any third person, but from
his own statement and in the fewest words possible, the basis of
agreement.
Theod. In what way?
Soc. In this way:-His words are, "What seems to a man, is to him."
Theod. Yes, so he says.
Soc. And are not we, Protagoras, uttering the opinion of man, or
rather of all mankind, when we say that every one thinks himself wiser
than other men in some things, and their inferior in others? In the
hour of danger, when they are in perils of war, or of the sea, or of
sickness, do they not look up to their commanders as if they were
gods, and expect salvation from them, only because they excel them
in knowledge? Is not the world full of men in their several
employments, who are looking for teachers and rulers of themselves and
of the animals? and there are plenty who think that they are able to
teach and able to rule. Now, in all this is implied that ignorance and
wisdom exist among them, least in their own opinion.
Theod. Certainly.
Soc. And wisdom is assumed by them to be true thought, and ignorance
to be false opinion.
Theod. Exactly.
Soc. How then, Protagoras, would you have us treat the argument?
Shall we say that the opinions of men are always true, or sometimes
true and sometimes false? In either case, the result is the same,
and their opinions are not always true, but sometimes true and
sometimes false. For tell me, Theodorus, do you suppose that you
yourself, or any other follower of Protagoras, would contend that no
one deems another ignorant or mistaken in his opinion?
Theod. The thing is incredible, Socrates.
Soc. And yet that absurdity is necessarily involved in the thesis
which declares man to be the measure of all things.
Theod. How so?
Soc. Why, suppose that you determine in your own mind something to
be true, and declare your opinion to me; let us assume, as he
argues, that this is true to you. Now, if so, you must either say that
the rest of us are not the judges of this opinion or judgment of
yours, or that we judge you always to have a true opinion: But are
there not thousands upon thousands who, whenever you form a
judgment, take up arms against you and are of an opposite judgment and
opinion, deeming that you judge falsely?
Theod. Yes, indeed, Socrates, thousands and tens of thousands, as
Homer says, who give me a world of trouble.
Soc. Well, but are we to assert that what you think is true to you
and false to the ten thousand others?
Theod. No other inference seems to be possible.
Soc. And how about Protagoras himself? If neither he nor the
multitude thought, as indeed they do not think, that man is the
measure of all things, must it not follow that the truth of which
Protagoras wrote would be true to no one? But if you suppose that he
himself thought this, and that the multitude does not agree with
him, you must begin by allowing that in whatever proportion the many
are more than one, in that proportion his truth is more untrue than
true.
Theod. That would follow if the truth is supposed to vary with
individual opinion.
Soc. And the best of the joke is, that he acknowledges the truth
of their opinion who believe his own opinion to be false; for he
admits that the opinions of all men are true.
Theod. Certainly.
Soc. And does he not allow that his own opinion is false, if he
admits that the opinion of those who think him false is true?
Theod. Of course.
Soc.