TIMAEU [0]
360 BC
TIMAEUS
by Plato
translated by Benjamin Jowett
TIMAEUS
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: SOCRATES; CRITIAS; TIMAEUS; HERMOCRATES
Socrates. One, two, three; but where, my dear Timaeus, is the fourth
of those who were yesterday my guests and are to be my entertainers
to-day?
Timaeus. He has been taken ill, Socrates; for he would not willingly
have been absent from this gathering.
Soc. Then, if he is not coming, you and the two others must supply
his place.
Tim. Certainly, and we will do all that we can; having been
handsomely entertained by you yesterday, those of us who remain should
be only too glad to return your hospitality.
Soc. Do you remember what were the points of which I required you to
speak?
Tim. We remember some of them, and you will be here to remind us
of anything which we have forgotten: or rather, if we are not
troubling you, will you briefly recapitulate the whole, and then the
particulars will be more firmly fixed in our memories?
Soc. To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's
discourse was the State-how constituted and of what citizens
composed it would seem likely to be most perfect.
Tim. Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our
mind.
Soc. Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and the
artisans from the class of defenders of the State?
Tim. Yes.
Soc. And when we had given to each one that single employment and
particular art which was suited to his nature, we spoke of those who
were intended to be our warriors, and said that they were to be
guardians of the city against attacks from within as well as from
without, and to have no other employment; they were to be merciful
in judging their subjects, of whom they were by nature friends, but
fierce to their enemies, when they came across them in battle.
Tim. Exactly.
Soc. We said, if I am not mistaken, that the guardians should be
gifted with a temperament in a high degree both passionate and
philosophical; and that then they would be as they ought to be, gentle
to their friends and fierce with their enemies.
Tim. Certainly.
Soc. And what did we say of their education? Were they not to be
trained in gymnastic, and music, and all other sorts of knowledge
which were proper for them?
Tim. Very true.
Soc. And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or silver
or anything else to be their own private property; they were to be
like hired troops, receiving pay for keeping guard from those who were
protected by them-the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men
of simple life; and they were to spend in common, and to live together
in the continual practice of virtue, which was to be their sole
pursuit.
Tim. That was also said.
Soc. Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared, that
their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with
those of the men, and that common pursuits should be assigned to
them both in time of war and in their ordinary life.
Tim. That, again, was as you say.
Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not the
proposal too singular to be forgotten? for all wives and children were
to be in common, to the intent that no one should ever know his own
child, but they were to imagine that they were all one family; those
who were within a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and
sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents and
grandparents, and those of a younger children and grandchildren.
Tim. Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say.
Soc. And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as far as
we could the best breed, we said that the chief magistrates, male
and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so
to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the
good of
TIMAEUS
by Plato
translated by Benjamin Jowett
TIMAEUS
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: SOCRATES; CRITIAS; TIMAEUS; HERMOCRATES
Socrates. One, two, three; but where, my dear Timaeus, is the fourth
of those who were yesterday my guests and are to be my entertainers
to-day?
Timaeus. He has been taken ill, Socrates; for he would not willingly
have been absent from this gathering.
Soc. Then, if he is not coming, you and the two others must supply
his place.
Tim. Certainly, and we will do all that we can; having been
handsomely entertained by you yesterday, those of us who remain should
be only too glad to return your hospitality.
Soc. Do you remember what were the points of which I required you to
speak?
Tim. We remember some of them, and you will be here to remind us
of anything which we have forgotten: or rather, if we are not
troubling you, will you briefly recapitulate the whole, and then the
particulars will be more firmly fixed in our memories?
Soc. To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's
discourse was the State-how constituted and of what citizens
composed it would seem likely to be most perfect.
Tim. Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our
mind.
Soc. Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and the
artisans from the class of defenders of the State?
Tim. Yes.
Soc. And when we had given to each one that single employment and
particular art which was suited to his nature, we spoke of those who
were intended to be our warriors, and said that they were to be
guardians of the city against attacks from within as well as from
without, and to have no other employment; they were to be merciful
in judging their subjects, of whom they were by nature friends, but
fierce to their enemies, when they came across them in battle.
Tim. Exactly.
Soc. We said, if I am not mistaken, that the guardians should be
gifted with a temperament in a high degree both passionate and
philosophical; and that then they would be as they ought to be, gentle
to their friends and fierce with their enemies.
Tim. Certainly.
Soc. And what did we say of their education? Were they not to be
trained in gymnastic, and music, and all other sorts of knowledge
which were proper for them?
Tim. Very true.
Soc. And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or silver
or anything else to be their own private property; they were to be
like hired troops, receiving pay for keeping guard from those who were
protected by them-the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men
of simple life; and they were to spend in common, and to live together
in the continual practice of virtue, which was to be their sole
pursuit.
Tim. That was also said.
Soc. Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared, that
their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with
those of the men, and that common pursuits should be assigned to
them both in time of war and in their ordinary life.
Tim. That, again, was as you say.
Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not the
proposal too singular to be forgotten? for all wives and children were
to be in common, to the intent that no one should ever know his own
child, but they were to imagine that they were all one family; those
who were within a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and
sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents and
grandparents, and those of a younger children and grandchildren.
Tim. Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say.
Soc. And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as far as
we could the best breed, we said that the chief magistrates, male
and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so
to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the
good of