TIMAEU [1]
either sex might pair with their like; and there was to be
no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the
union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot?
Tim. I remember.
Soc. And you remember how we said that the children of the good
parents were to be educated, and the children of the bad secretly
dispersed among the inferior citizens; and while they were all growing
up the rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below
in their turn those who were worthy, and those among themselves who
were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up?
Tim. True.
Soc. Then have I now given you all the heads of our yesterday's
discussion? Or is there anything more, my dear Timaeus, which has been
omitted?
Tim. Nothing, Socrates; it was just as you have said.
Soc. I should like, before proceeding further, to tell you how I
feel about the State which we have described. I might compare myself
to a person who, on beholding beautiful animals either created by
the painter's art, or, better still, alive but at rest, is seized with
a desire of seeing them in motion or engaged in some struggle or
conflict to which their forms appear suited; this is my feeling
about the State which we have been describing. There are conflicts
which all cities undergo, and I should like to hear some one tell of
our own city carrying on a struggle against her neighbours, and how
she went out to war in a becoming manner, and when at war showed by
the greatness of her actions and the magnanimity of her words in
dealing with other cities a result worthy of her training and
education. Now I, Critias and Hermocrates, am conscious that I
myself should never be able to celebrate the city and her citizens
in a befitting manner, and I am not surprised at my own incapacity; to
me the wonder is rather that the poets present as well as past are
no better-not that I mean to depreciate them; but every one can see
that they are a tribe of imitators, and will imitate best and most
easily the life in which they have been brought up; while that which
is beyond the range of a man's education he finds hard to carry out in
action, and still harder adequately to represent in language. I am
aware that the Sophists have plenty of brave words and fair
conceits, but I am afraid that being only wanderers from one city to
another, and having never had habitations of their own, they may
fail in their conception of philosophers and statesmen, and may not
know what they do and say in time of war, when they are fighting or
holding parley with their enemies. And thus people of your class are
the only ones remaining who are fitted by nature and education to take
part at once both in politics and philosophy. Here is Timaeus, of
Locris in Italy, a city which has admirable laws, and who is himself
in wealth and rank the equal of any of his fellow-citizens; he has
held the most important and honourable offices in his own state,
and, as I believe, has scaled the heights of all philosophy; and
here is Critias, whom every Athenian knows to be no novice in the
matters of which we are speaking; and as to, Hermocrates, I am assured
by many witnesses that his genius and education qualify him to take
part in any speculation of the kind. And therefore yesterday when I
saw that you wanted me to describe the formation of the State, I
readily assented, being very well aware, that, if you only would, none
were better qualified to carry the discussion further, and that when
you had engaged our city in a suitable war, you of all men living
could best exhibit her playing a fitting part. When I had completed my
task, I in return imposed this other task upon you. You conferred
together and agreed to entertain me to-day, as I had entertained
you, with a feast of discourse. Here am I in festive array, and no man
can be more ready for the promised banquet.
Her. And we too, Socrates, as Timaeus says, will not be wanting in
enthusiasm;
no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the
union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot?
Tim. I remember.
Soc. And you remember how we said that the children of the good
parents were to be educated, and the children of the bad secretly
dispersed among the inferior citizens; and while they were all growing
up the rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below
in their turn those who were worthy, and those among themselves who
were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up?
Tim. True.
Soc. Then have I now given you all the heads of our yesterday's
discussion? Or is there anything more, my dear Timaeus, which has been
omitted?
Tim. Nothing, Socrates; it was just as you have said.
Soc. I should like, before proceeding further, to tell you how I
feel about the State which we have described. I might compare myself
to a person who, on beholding beautiful animals either created by
the painter's art, or, better still, alive but at rest, is seized with
a desire of seeing them in motion or engaged in some struggle or
conflict to which their forms appear suited; this is my feeling
about the State which we have been describing. There are conflicts
which all cities undergo, and I should like to hear some one tell of
our own city carrying on a struggle against her neighbours, and how
she went out to war in a becoming manner, and when at war showed by
the greatness of her actions and the magnanimity of her words in
dealing with other cities a result worthy of her training and
education. Now I, Critias and Hermocrates, am conscious that I
myself should never be able to celebrate the city and her citizens
in a befitting manner, and I am not surprised at my own incapacity; to
me the wonder is rather that the poets present as well as past are
no better-not that I mean to depreciate them; but every one can see
that they are a tribe of imitators, and will imitate best and most
easily the life in which they have been brought up; while that which
is beyond the range of a man's education he finds hard to carry out in
action, and still harder adequately to represent in language. I am
aware that the Sophists have plenty of brave words and fair
conceits, but I am afraid that being only wanderers from one city to
another, and having never had habitations of their own, they may
fail in their conception of philosophers and statesmen, and may not
know what they do and say in time of war, when they are fighting or
holding parley with their enemies. And thus people of your class are
the only ones remaining who are fitted by nature and education to take
part at once both in politics and philosophy. Here is Timaeus, of
Locris in Italy, a city which has admirable laws, and who is himself
in wealth and rank the equal of any of his fellow-citizens; he has
held the most important and honourable offices in his own state,
and, as I believe, has scaled the heights of all philosophy; and
here is Critias, whom every Athenian knows to be no novice in the
matters of which we are speaking; and as to, Hermocrates, I am assured
by many witnesses that his genius and education qualify him to take
part in any speculation of the kind. And therefore yesterday when I
saw that you wanted me to describe the formation of the State, I
readily assented, being very well aware, that, if you only would, none
were better qualified to carry the discussion further, and that when
you had engaged our city in a suitable war, you of all men living
could best exhibit her playing a fitting part. When I had completed my
task, I in return imposed this other task upon you. You conferred
together and agreed to entertain me to-day, as I had entertained
you, with a feast of discourse. Here am I in festive array, and no man
can be more ready for the promised banquet.
Her. And we too, Socrates, as Timaeus says, will not be wanting in
enthusiasm;